tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post6924435524349696818..comments2012-01-11T16:48:45.812-08:00Comments on Under the Cork Tree: My Endorsements: Super Sunday & Super TuesdayJeffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10473888441129611452noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-33690319888647457782008-02-06T20:54:00.000-08:002008-02-06T20:54:00.000-08:00All of those things that you talk about are lofty,...All of those things that you talk about are lofty, and for the most part, shared ideals. But how would you get them on the ballot without a voter initiative?<BR/><BR/>Although the bathwater is getting a little mucky, there’s still a baby in it that might grow up, and become the good laws that will save us all. <BR/><BR/>I feel that it is the special interest groups that are <B>behind</B> trying to get rid of the voter initiative process. If you look at the laws that have been passed by the voter initiative, there are some bad, but also some good laws. If you look it up, you’ll find what I mean. Proposition 13 was one of the laws that would have never happened with out an initiative. Even though there are people that have opinions on both sides of that law, I feel it was a necessary law.<BR/><BR/>Bob:<I>“ As a thinking, progressive democrat desperately seeking a change in our national dialogue.</I> <BR/>I would think that you would see the voter initiative as a tool against the ingrained “Big Money Politics”. <BR/><BR/>It is nice to talk to someone like yourself that can discuss the issues without all the name calling. You have a refreshing blog with a refreshing point of view.Ernie Branscombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06391160783604462511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-32815274077699891062008-02-06T13:15:00.000-08:002008-02-06T13:15:00.000-08:00Thank you, Ernie, and Evan before you, for the imp...Thank you, Ernie, and Evan before you, for the impassioned counterarguments to my trashing of the ballot initiative process. And yes, Ernie, all those things you listed do concern me, thus my standing, I believe, as a thinking, progressive democrat desperately seeking a change in our national dialogue. <BR/><BR/>But like the ideal of a people-driven representative democracy as elucidated in our constitution, I feel the ballot initiative system has been just as effectively bastardized as our congress and state assembly. <BR/><BR/>Is not the ballot initiative process driven primarily by corporate interests, perhaps even more so than people power? Were those Indian gaming issues on yesterday's ballot being debated by Indians on the reservations and their quarter-slot-armed customers, or by big corporations and powerful politicians that wanted to ensure their constituencies of a substantial piece of the pie?<BR/><BR/>Money has corrupted the entire system, and I'm not sure how to fix it. (If I did, I'd probably be collecting money from campaign reform special interests so I could run for office to change it before I became corrupted myself.) <BR/><BR/>But rather than handing lawmaking over to the "man on the street" (which of course is what democracy means at its core) I'd rather see us first begin to demand responsibility and accountability of our politicians, local and national. In this pretty great system we created a couple hundred years ago, we captured the idea of a congress of our representatives, serving the will of the people. It's still a pretty cool concept. <BR/><BR/>I'd suggest we fix the way our elected representatives do business, first by banning lobbying and corporate money altogether, and by waking up the slumbering intellects of we the people who continue to vote these folks in to office, and demand that they serve us, and not God or mammon. If they don't, lets' find someone else who will.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10473888441129611452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-11192524510901942492008-02-04T12:39:00.000-08:002008-02-04T12:39:00.000-08:00Sorry that the Patriot's lost. I also grew up in ...Sorry that the Patriot's lost. I also grew up in Massachusetts on Cape Cod.<BR/><BR/>I voted absentee for Hillary mainly because we are both women. I love Obama and will be very happy if he is the democratic nominee.Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10082877661130396437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-66569085425173767012008-02-03T20:38:00.000-08:002008-02-03T20:38:00.000-08:00“You can blame talk radio, the insipid corporate m...<I>“You can blame talk radio, the insipid corporate media, and the internet, but we are no longer one country, indivisible. We are not united to stand; we are divided to fail.” </I> <BR/>Agreed. I am reminded of how easily the television media took out Howard Dean on his supposed “rant” that he did over the noise of the crowd that his microphone wasn’t picking up. I think we are becoming a nation of sheep, and we are not so much depending on the media to give us information, but we are taking the easy way out and letting them tell us what to think, instead of thinking for ourselves.<BR/><BR/>I‘m assuming from your stance on ballot initiatives that you would be against California‘s Propostion 13 -“The People's Initiative to Limit Property Taxation," <BR/><BR/>Bob said: <I>“This is idiot special interest democracy run amok. “</I><BR/><BR/>I’m sorry Bob, but I feel the ballot initiative is the last desperate gasp of “We The People.”<BR/>The ballot initiative is not an easy process, and it is still subject to a vote. Bad initiatives are not likely to pass. But, here is the rub; who could we depend on to look out for us if our politicians ever become dependant on big money? That was a rhetorical question, because our politicians are all dependant on big money. Frightfully so!<BR/><BR/>Does it worry you that America no longer has any manufacturing jobs? Or that we are becoming more and more dependant on foreign oil? Does it bother you that we are no longer able to maintain our infrastructure? Does it bother you that people without college educations or slightly disadvantaged people can no longer maintain good enough employment that they can make ends meet. Does it bother you that there are people living on the streets. These are not problems that a bought-out-politician is going to solve for us. If they were problems that the politicians were inclined to address, they already would have. These are problems that “We The People” are going to have to solve. We can’t depend on the same politicians that sold our God Bless America down the river already.<BR/><BR/>You and I are always going to do well, because we are smart and have organized our lives to be successful. Not all people are as well adapted to survival as you and I. For that reason I believe in the ballot initiative.<BR/><BR/>You obviously have a powerful brain, please use it to help <I>solve</I> our problems, we already know what they are.Ernie Branscombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06391160783604462511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-91300775834002221512008-02-03T20:30:00.000-08:002008-02-03T20:30:00.000-08:00Oh well. Keep in mind the Pats' comments were an ...Oh well. Keep in mind the Pats' comments were an <I>endorsement</I> not a pick. Do you think 18 and 0 matters anymore?<BR/><BR/>And I appreciate the number of y'all who've dropped in. Wouldn't expect anyone to agree with all my ranting, and I've been known, like the Patriots, to be somewhat less than perfect in my opinions, but that's what makes us such a cool collection of thinkin' citizens, eh? Join in the rants. Come one, come all.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10473888441129611452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-90443657787232989972008-02-03T19:32:00.000-08:002008-02-03T19:32:00.000-08:00Mmmmm, guacamole!Quite the articulate post, Bob – ...Mmmmm, guacamole!<BR/><BR/>Quite the articulate post, Bob – as expected. Thanks for summing up the great political divide so well.Jennifer Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05354196343017006168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-29514566740681821692008-02-03T19:27:00.000-08:002008-02-03T19:27:00.000-08:00Wow, keep writing. I agree with you on some things...Wow, keep writing. <BR/><BR/>I agree with you on some things, but not on others. My brain hurts right now from too much thinking. I appreciate yours thoughts, but disagree on some issues also. I’ll be back.<BR/><BR/>Dinners ready.Ernie Branscombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06391160783604462511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-25266992499609213692008-02-03T19:25:00.000-08:002008-02-03T19:25:00.000-08:00Nice take on Obama, Bob.Nice take on Obama, Bob.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-752049096184087652008-02-03T15:58:00.000-08:002008-02-03T15:58:00.000-08:00Go Obama.If there's a problem with citizen democra...Go Obama.<BR/><BR/>If there's a problem with citizen democracy, fix it, don't give a monopoly to representatives, so easily corrupted by money, power and ego!<BR/><BR/>There've been many good proposals to get ballot initiatives "under control" -and representatives are the main obstacle! The Swiss, for example, for 160 years have allowed petitions to be signed at City Hall, supermarkets, etc., so petitioners don't have to be paid (allowing grassroots groups to afford to participate) and letting people read and sign at leisure instead of being pressured.<BR/><BR/>Also, look at history: Women's Suffrage was passed by voters (that would be men!) in 13 states before Congress finally went along. Medical Marijuana was passed by ballot initiative in 8 of the 13 states with it. "Clean" (publicly funded) Elections were passed by initiative in 6 of the 7 states with it. Many more examples at http://Vote.org/initiatives<BR/><BR/>The BEST proposals for more deliberation (hearings, expert testimony, amendments, and reports -like representatives get),<BR/>less influence by money, etc. and for NATIONAL initiatives (which would stop torture, aggressive war, domestic spying etc., FAST) are the National Initiative for Democracy project of Mike Gravel (http://Vote.org) and Citizens Initiative Review (http://Cirwa.org)Evan Ravitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14342152859071613438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1177354140390690190.post-16622956635549981452008-02-03T12:05:00.000-08:002008-02-03T12:05:00.000-08:00Another good post. I especially enjoyed your firs...Another good post. I especially enjoyed your first paragraph on Obama. You have a gift with words.Kymhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04724133309876710731noreply@blogger.com